-TT

PS: And the DIVAS are now 8cm below my ceeling. Got to love it ;-)

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:
If you put the amps on the cieling ,,gravity feed imensley improve's speaker performance. Al

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I'm thinking of marketing a new product called the amplifier elevator. It will be the last word in high fidelity.

I like Al's idea, but I believe you have to stand on your head while listening to get the full effect. In fact, judging by his spelling, maybe that's what he was doing while typing. Al??

Anyway, regarding the first post. I get so tired of reading this kind of crap on various forums. It's the same old cliche's over and over and over. "I'm really a skeptic but, yadda yadda yadda, there was a HUGE difference, yadda yadda yadda." For cryin' out loud, give it a rest please!

The threads on this forum used to be almost exclusively enjoyable.....and ALL Apogee related. Not so anymore unfortunately.

Cheers,

Davey.

We are just joking around here on the Gravity feeds etc. If the changes you made resulted in a huge difference to you - then MORE POWER TO YOU! I have also been shocked by the differnce an expensive Power Cord made to my Classe DR10, and been flabbergasted as to why. And whether we all agree or not, it is good information for us to critically explore ourselves - which is always a good thing.

Now regarding the gravity feed, I tried that tweak a year ago (suspended the amp from the top of a lightpole outside the listening room and fed the speaker cables down from through the attic) and found that the highs got MORE prominent, and the bass got muddier. Clearly, this is becuase even though the bass is manifested by heavier electrons and reached the speaker terminals first, the high-frequency electrons, being smaller, could "squeeze" between the bass electrons to the speaker terminals, while the bass electrons congested at the terminals. Bi-wiring was no good, since the highs were lagging significantly behind the bass, in some cases, by almost a second, which destroyed the "timing" of the music. On "Hotel Califonia" the high hat started playing well after the Bass kicks were fading out........

Magman.

Assuming one has chosen at the very least components that are well matched and properly designed to the job at hand (flavor aside)...only small gains are to be had here and there.

Room treatments could be JAW DROPPING for some I would guess...was not for me because my room is dedicated and built by my son and I with good acoustics as part of the build.

That said...still my largest tweak were room treatments (11 bass traps).

Dedicated lines along with dedicated breaker box in the garage was a nice tweak.

On the flavor side, adding a very good tubed preamp to mate with my SS Krell was a nice gain once I found the exact tubes for me and my taste.

Thats it!, I've tried many of the other tweaks and found NO or VERY LITTLE gain to be had...many a complete waist of time and money.

Isolation from vibrations of Turntable and CDP is a known so I won't go there other than to say this can be done for free or very little cost at the most...spending big money here is not something I would ever do.

quote:

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Originally posted by Magman:
RSJM80,

We are just joking around here on the Gravity feeds etc. If the changes you made resulted in a huge difference to you - then MORE POWER TO YOU! I have also been shocked by the differnce an expensive Power Cord made to my Classe DR10, and been flabbergasted as to why. And whether we all agree or not, it is good information for us to critically explore ourselves - which is always a good thing.

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RSJM80,

Have a read (above). Only one person had a problem with you posting (and Davey is KNOWN and accepted by all of us as an Iconoclast of expensive tweaks and equipment ) and the rest of us were just joking around around for the sake of comic amusement in these trying times. No offense was meant, and in fact your post just STARTED the discussion and the follow-up post were just general posts regarding tweaks. The more of us on board - and the more diverse the opinions expressed here - the better!

Seriously though, if it sounds good to you than it really doesnt matter what others think does it ? Trust your ears not magazine articles, reviewers, and salesmen. Bouncing ideas off others is what this forum is all about.

You're considering leaving because I commented I'm sick of seeing posts like yours on forums and some of the other guys had some fun with this thread? C'mon, get a thicker skin. You'll need it if you're going to post regularly on audio forums.

Hey, I'm the oddball around here and everybody knows it. No need for you to leave because of this.

Davey the Iconoclast....I like that!

Cheers,

Davey.

Don't take this to heart. We all get excited over any improvement in our system's sound, and these improvements can come from the oddest places. And, as is being pointed out, we are the oddest collection of individuals suffering from what I would describe as obsessive compulsive disorder focussed on a narrow, arcane and largely incomprehensible hobby.

We are all opinionated. And vulnerable. You just have to read any of GD's posts to feel a twinge of doubt, a terrible sense of foreboding... is my system (gasp!) veiled and coloured ?!? - and am I too stupid to hear it?

We all struggle (or sail, depending on means) through the labyrinth of equipment choice and setup. It is always amazing how different the paths can be... there are components in use by members here that I think (based on direct personal experience) are not very good, yet they are happy. I use components that others feel are garbage - yet I am happy. Are we all wrong? Of course not! Great sound is a balance - something that makes a big difference in one system may make less of a difference in another, and not because one is "better" then the other. And remember - we all seek a slightly different subjective truth. What matters to me might be inconsequential to you, and vice versa.

Here's an example: I am a believer in power conditioning, genuinely feel that products like the ps-audio power plant can elicit significant improvements in the sound of a system, and will spend money on them. Yet, I have never even tried aftermarket power cords. I am not laughing at your power cord changes - I wouldn't dare, never having tried them! Enough people extoll their virtues for me to have a trial on the (ever growing) list of audio-things-to-do.

Now Al we have to worry about - I think he just might have been serious about the gravity thing... comes from having a combination of WAY too much gear and time on his hands!

Stick around. You are amongst friends.

Just don't leave the forum because of this thread. I think the last few posts demonstrate that no malice was intended.

While an initial skeptic, I always try to keep an open mind about anything that may make an improvement in sound. Even if no one else believes it or hears it, if you do -that's all that matters.

Hmmm, you have never owned a TT? Vibration control does work...does not require a big cash outlay though.

The more poor the room (weak wood floors)...the more it works.

My position on tweaks:

(1) Some of them work, and you won't know until you try.

(2) I will try only those tweaks that make some sense to me, and vibration control, diffusors, removing socks make sense to me. I won't hang my amps up in the air though not because I need cranes to lift my amps up but because I won't.

(3) It has nothing to do with Science. I have enough science in my work to deal with and therefore I leave my scientist hat off when dealing with audio.

(4) Finally, it is all about toys, fun, and perception. Some people just enjoy tweaking and "hear" something. I do not think there is anything wrong with that. I have heard differences in tweaks even when I was in doubt. Cables are such a mystery.

(5) Our systems sound different at different times, depending upon our mood and the quality of electricity, background noise, etc. So the effects of tweaks has to reckoned with that varition. Besides, not every change is for the better. Some tweaks just change the sound and not necessarily improve.

I am myself tweaky, but I do it in phases alternating with listening only periods, otherwise you get tired of both.

By the way, Al, I thought you were very skeptical on the improvements done by diffusors and socks that I reported (which can have some logical explanation) but you do not mind hanging your amps up. What's the deal then?

rsjm80: Please stay.

Glad to have you back on board! All opinions (on audio at least ) are more than welcome here. I have to say though, that you started a GREAT thread - and the gravity feed posts were absolutely hilarious to boot!

Magman.

quote:

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Originally posted by rgodin:

I'm thinking of marketing a new product called the amplifier elevator. It will be the last word in high fidelity.

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Rgodin,

Will you accept Credit Cards? Sign me up!

Funny - as a result I never went on to buy a rack. I guess we are all kind of conditioned to revere kit and mock tweaks - but that demo was the single most impressive tweak demo I have ever heard, in line with a serious kit upgrade...

RS - I do hope you don't get upset with the responses. Some believe that if they didn't read it in a book written by one of their personal icon's - it surely doesn't exist. You know better...

I also enjoy sharing a fellow audiophile's enthusiasm and excitement when they have experienced a jaw-dropping moment and share that experience with others. This is one of the reasons I am a member of this community. I've learned a lot from members' sharing and I am appreciative of this.

rsjm80, anytime you want to write about a break-through tweak that rendered a new perspective on your listening, you've an audience.

Graz, would you send me your email address?? Would like to talk to you about replacement ribbons for my DSs. Thanks.

A few weeks ago I bought hospital something like a power bar with 4 hospital grade outlets in each. I wired each one up with audiophile power cords and installed them in place of the existing Radio Shack/WalMart versions. My mother-in-law arrived from Ireland for a visit and my wife gave her the attic audio room and I couldn't get a chance to listen until she left. She left last week and I went up an listned last Thursday. It was late and I was tired, but I finally had the holography. I went up again on Friday night after I put the kids to bed and listened into the early hours of the morning. My favourite was Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark. Finally after all these years I had finally achieved my goal. I went up again early Sunday morning to listen some more and it was gone! Where did it go - I hadn't changed anything.

Perhaps I should elevate the amps, but they are already on the third floor and the air is thinner up there.

quote:

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Originally posted by novaprod:
I went up an listned last Thursday. It was late and I was tired, but I finally had the holography. I went up again on Friday night after I put the kids to bed and listened into the early hours of the morning. My favourite was Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark. Finally after all these years I had finally achieved my goal. I went up again early Sunday morning to listen some more and it was gone! Where did it go -- I hadn't changed anything.

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Address details...

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Take care - Graz

info@apogeeribbons.com

or graz@graz.com.au